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Past Discussions

Talk:Rand al'Thor/Archive 1

Reorganisation

We are currently reorganising the main character pages and they are being locked during this renovation period. Many thanks for your understanding. Moridin_2000 (talk) 00:52, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Use of Callandor

Moridin, I think, Rand used Callandor four times in the series. He used it to chase and then, as an ordinary sword, to kill Ishamael (but an ordinary sword probably wouldn't kill a forsaken) 3/55, then, as sa'angreal to eradicate Shadowspawn in the Stone (4/10), to attack Seanchan (can't remember the reference) and, finally, in Shayol Ghul in the circle with Moiraine, Nynaeve and Moridin (14/47).

Thanks, I meant to double check that number with regard to Ishamael and I did not remember the aMoL part. I'll make the changes just now and thanks for the chapter refs! Moridin_2000 (talk) 13:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Rand may have relation to the Meso American mythology of Quetzalcoatl or Incan Viracocha, or the Celtic Dagda

Quetzalcoatl is the "Feathered Serpent" that bears some similarity to a the sinuous Dragon of WoT. His title is Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli or "Lord of the star of dawn" which bears a striking similarity to the Dragon (Lews Therin & Rand) as the "Lord of the morning" and the god was believed and prophesized to return in the time of mankinds greatest need.

The Incan Viracocha was believed to destroy and remake civilization from cataclysm. Often pictured wearing the Sun as a Crown which has symbolism with Rand in Cairhien, and wielding lightning bolts in his hands. Also precedent in the god setting up learning centers, along the lines of Rand's schools, as well as him disappearing across the sea once the need for him was finished, which has some similarity to him going to wander after the Last Battle.

I think there is some merit in Jordan having some of this part of the worlds mythos woven into the the story. The Wheel of Time itself is in part based on the cyclical nature of time derived from some Eastern Asian cultural mythos. But the number of their "Ages" do not align with the Wheel of Time. The 7 ages of the Wheel do however match up with the Mayan 7 Ages of Man.

On the Celtic God the Dagda, we have a god who is believed to influence the bounty and fertility of the land, directly tied to his coming and bends to his will similar to Rand in his last phase in the books post-Dragon Mount epiphany. The Dagda has a relationship, in some mythos marriage, to the triplicate Goddess the Morrigan. The Morrigan has three aspects, sometimes referred to as sisters, the Mother, the Maiden, and the Elder Crone that sees visions of people's doom and death in prophecy. Which, ties fairly well to the three women in Rand's relationship, Elayne, Aviendha, and Min.

He is the elder god and King of the Celtic pantheon Tuatha Dé Danann, the Celtic mythos that eventually became the Aos Sí or Aes Sídhe... the magical fairy folk. And Aes Sídhe has clear association with the Aes Sedai. His associated triplicate god aspect Nuada loses a hand in battle.

I think there's a fair number of coincidences in these that might speak to Jordan having pulled from these myths while creating his work. The Celtic piece of this is already fairly well established in discussion in the wiki (though I don't see the association with the Dagda in the entry). But I haven't seen much in terms of the Central and South American cultural mythos, and I think that bears consideration.

Hi, I'll look into these, thanks! I will need to verify independently as there has been material added on parallels in the past that has been factually incorrect with regards to specific claims. It's very easy to make connections that may be coincidence, but it bears considering. Also remember to sign your comments on Talk pages using four tildes. :) Moridin_2000 (talk) 00:40, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
There were a few things I had trouble trying to verify; reference to the Mayan's having seven ages and the fact that Quetzalcoatl will return "in the time of mankind's greatest need. Viracocha seems to be more of a creator god and I think there are not so many similarities there. Likewise with Nuada as I'm hesitant to include anything as an intentional parallel because they lost a hand (I also removed Tyr as a parallel for the same reason as I think it was just coincident. Moridin_2000 (talk) 23:08, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
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